(How many of you have noticed that the photo at the top of this blog comes from the movie, The Tree of Life?)
At this point in our studies of the biblical Wisdom Literature, which type of wisdom to you find most convincing, the wisdom of Proverbs and Psalms or the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes? Explain.
I think that the wisdom out of Job and Ecclesiastes is more convincing. Mainly because I think that this wisdom is more relative to current day situations. Since we live in the lifetime after Job we deal with the righteous and just suffering from what humans perceive as "pointless suffering". Since Job is the book of the bible where "pointless suffering is introduced, I believe that it better suits current day society. In Job we learn that those who are righteous will sometimes suffer the same way that an unrighteous person would. I think the important lesson to learn though, is that don't turn your back on God, even when all seems lost. Although Job questions God he never turns away from him. In the end job earns up with much more than he had before. Although the loss of his original items and family still hurt, God rewards him for staying faithful. In Ecclesiastes, we learn that there is a time for everything. A time for peace, a time for war. We can't see things the way that God sees them. We don't know if what we perceive as "pointless suffering" will lead to a greater good down the road. I think that these lessons teach us and help us to cope with the "pointless suffering" in life. That is why I think that Ecclesiastes and Job give the more convincing wisdom.
ReplyDeleteThere lies no doubt in my mind that the wisdom recorded down on the Job/Ecclesiastes side of roof proves to me of more use than that of Proverbs/Psalms. The only reason being that it is quite evident that what the books of Job and Ecclesiastes are truth, and that there exists "pointless suffering" all throughout the world. Such is life, and so I consider the Proverbs/Psalms part of the roof more of an idealistic approach to life, one where the righteous have only happiness. Thus I consider the Proverbs/Psalms to be expressing more of an incentive to be good, even when there exists "pointless suffering" in our world. The wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes also strikes me as perhaps a Proverbs/Psalms version two, in which it is common knowledge that there is "pointless suffering" in the world, but also preaches that being good is better. Anyways, I consider Job/Ecclesiastes more convincing because they, to me, portray the truth of the world.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion the type of wisdom that I find most convincing is Job and Ecclesiastes. I think this because I find that it relates more to real life situations that are happending. It talkes about "pointless suffering" and I think that many people can realte that to their present day lifes. In the story of Job, when Job is complaining to God, God asks him where were you when this, and that happened. He was showing Job how small he is compared to him and the world. When I read this passage, it acaually made me think about how big the world and how it so sublimed. Eventhough Job and Ecclesiastes, to me are the most convincing, I also think that Proverbs and Psalma is convincing.
ReplyDeleteTo me, I find the wisdom of Job/Ecclesiastes to be more convincing. I think this because it really points to that Job had done nothing and that he did not deserve his sufferings. Also I found the story of Job to be easier to understand than that of all the Proverbs and Psalms. I think this is because of the clear statements about "pointless suffering", and how even the righteous can sometimes fall into suffering. As for when Job begged to god, asking him what he had done to deserve such things, god responded to him and told him to look at the whole world and compare his problems to the making of the world. This showed him how small he was in comparison to the rest of the world, and this is how I feel sometimes. When I ask myself what did I do to deserve this, I sometimes think of how Job lost everything he owned for no reason and this was just pointless suffering.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the wisdom passed down in Ecclesiastes and Job is far more useful and worth telling than the wisdom passed down in Psalms and proverbs. Psalms and proverbs are generally strict. While the message is not always relayed straightforward and bluntly, there is usually only one interpretation, which limits down the reality of the wisdom of the words. Life is neither the same for everyone nor black and white, no, life is different for each person and I believe that applying the same wisdom with words that cannot be interpreted differently for each individual is far too limiting and the same wisdom does not necessarily apply for everybody. In addition, many of the Psalms and Proverbs are common sense and do not truly benefit me at all. In Job, the notion of pointless suffering is brought up, something that I had never truly considered before. In addition, Job can be interpreted in multiple ways, yet the story of Job does not just straight-out tell us the knowledge; it makes us come you our own conclusion which is far more valuable than wisdom that is just handed to us. Because of that, we truly understand what they relay, though in Proverbs and Psalms, they just tell us the wisdom without making us work for it, thus not necessarily truly relaying the knowledge effectively. In Ecclesiastes, “There is a time for everything,” the lesson that it relays makes one understand that their entire life is not going to end because a streak of good fortune ends with something horrible happening. It is useful knowledge because it helps humans cope with suffering, and not to doubt happiness or something beneficial because you did not necessarily have a good life. Teaching people how to cope with surprises by saying there is a time for everything is extremely beneficial knowledge. Overall, the lessons of Ecclesiastes and Job are far more useful than that of Proverbs and Psalms.
ReplyDeleteI believe the wisdom of Job/Ecclesiastes is more convincing than Proverbs/Psalms. Bad things happen to good people, and pointless suffering exists in the world. It’s a basic truth of life, one that should have been on my list in in Writer’s Notebook. Though I think the advice given in Proverbs/Psalms is moral, it’s also idealistic. Being righteous and helping the poor aren’t wrong actions, but the idea that you will be rewarded for them in this lifetime is quixotic. The message of Job is that though we cannot control whether we suffer or not, it is still worthwhile to be a good person. For me, the books of Proverbs and Psalms sound as though they were written by the wealthy, for the wealthy. The book of Job is an explanation for an unavoidable truth that can be applied to anyone’s life.
ReplyDeleteI think the wisdom in the story of Job and Ecclesiastes is more convincing, for many reasons. First, I think they're more convincing because they actually put their lessons into context, instead of just telling you what is right and what is wrong. This way, it tells you what can happen when you do right or wrong. The message is hidden in a story so it can reveal what can happen in a certain situation as a demonstration. This makes the rule/message more understandable and easier to abide to because it is made clear that there are always consequences. And personally, the story of Job and Ecclesiastes was way easier for me to understand than the vague and confusing proverbs and psalms. And in class, we obviously took a lot more knowledge from the story of Job than the proverbs.
ReplyDeleteI have been most interested in the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes because it tries to give us answers for why things happen in the world that we cannot understand. The story of Job maybe even confuses us even more but I think it is good that the Bible included stories like that. It shows that they questioned god and that is what god wanted from his people. I think it was included in the Bible also because they were unsure of the reason for suffering. Especially pointless suffering or suffering that happens to good righteous people. Proverbs just tell us short and sweet little saying about what is right and what is wrong, and how you should act. But they do not get us thinking and asking questions in the way the story of Job and Ecclesiastes do. Ecclesiastes tells us there is a time to be happy, sad, and angry. It also says there is a time for suffering and I think it shows that at some point in time everyone will be happy, sad, and suffering. As I said before these parts of the wisdom literature really do get people thinking. I wonder why they thought it was so important to include this section because normally I thought nobody ever really questioned god back then but these stories show that everyone at some point has had questions.
ReplyDeleteI believe the wisdom in Job and Ecclesiastes is more convincing than that of Proverbs and Psalms. In the first place, the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes comes into my life more than Proverbs and Psalms. Psalms and Proverbs seem to be more of common sense that I will have already known (hopefully) by the time I picked up the Bible and began reading. Also, some of the proverbs do no apply to the modern world, and are as a result interesting to read but not really useful. On the other hand, Job and Ecclesiastes teach us more applicable wisdom to modern society, such as "life is not always fair". The books of Proverbs and Psalms state that the righteous will not suffer; but they do in the modern world. People, no matter good or bad, will have some amount of suffering in our lives. We're only human, we can't always be perfect, and sometimes even the best of people do stupid things and regret it later. However, what if you didn't do anything wrong and you still received punishment? According to Proverbs and Psalms, you shouldn't have suffered. This is when the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes comes into play. Suffering will happen regardless of whether or not you are righteous, and that is something humans must accept. In a way, this information and understanding will take you a lot further, and let you know right away that things won't always go right, and that it is not our fault when they don't.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion The wisdom of Job is the most convincing to the other sections of the Wisdom literature. To me the teachings of Job are seen more real then proverbs. Simply because we see the teachings of Job everyday. On the flip side as we disscussed in class proverbs are seen more as conventional wisdom and many do not appaly as well to moderen day. Job's story and what we learn from it are still very revelent in our everyday lives. Whenever I complain about homework or assingments I often hear life is not fair. This is the main teaching in Job that if the good suffer then life is indeed not fair. Lastly Jobs teachings are also more realistic and not a set of rules or list of helpful hints. Instead Job must live the real world and know the hardships in life that make living a struglle and also to make things interesting at times.
ReplyDeleteI find the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes to be more convincing then the Proverbs and Psalms. I believe this because I feel that Job and Ecclesiastes both are about things in the human world that we cannot explain, but Proverbs and Psalms both talk about things that while still are considered wisdom, don't seem to be as sublime as the wisdom in the book of Job and Ecclesiastes. To explain, Job and Ecclesiastes talk more about why people suffer which is a discussion that humans have been trying to figure out forever. The Proverbs and Psalms talk more about basic knowledge of everyday occurrences which seems to be clearly the more well-known topic of the two (suffering versus everyday knowledge). I tend to believe that sections of the Bible that attempt to answer questions that humans themselves cannot even fathom contain much more wisdom then the parts that talk about, for example, how to treat your neighbor.
ReplyDeleteI think that the wisdom in the story of Job and Ecclesiates is more convincing thant the Proverbs and Psalms. The story of Job and Ecclesiates can be related to in real life, but not really not proverbs or psalms. I believe that the story of Job can teach people that no matter how good you are, you still can suffer not matter one. It represents our lives better than Proverbs and Psalms. It is also easier to read and learn than some of the proverbs just because some of the ways the proverbs are written are confusing for many of us. Like the story of Job convinces us of different lessons and has a clear moral, while proverbs sometimes does not show a clear moral, but rather that you have to look and try to understand what it says to get a clear moral. Also, the story of Job seems very important because it creates a controversy in the religious world but also provides with a lifelong lesson unlike proverbs.
ReplyDeleteI feel that all of the books in "wisdom literature" are so important to how people live their lives. However, I do believe that the wisdom literature books of Job and Ecclesiastes. I think it is very important to know how to cope with bad things that happen to us in our every day lives and why they happen. Everyone always says "everything happens for a reason". Sometimes we do not know that reason, it can be explained by the book of Job. Also, everyone needs to know how to cut loose and enjoy themselves. The book of ecclesiastes teaches you how to enjoy. I think these books teach us how to feel and go along with our lives every day and how to react to things that make us mad, sad or happy. Ecclesiastes teaches us how to make the best out of what we have and to not covet anything. The book of Job gives us an explanation as to why bad things happen to good people and so forth.
ReplyDeleteI find Job more convincing, because it teaches by example, in a way. Job shows that there is pointless suffering and even the righteous but it shows it through the story of Job, whereas in Proverbs and Psalms they just list a lot of conventional wisdom that they have no proof is true. Everything in Proverbs in Psalms is contradicted by Job. I guess everything in Job is contradicted by Proverbs and Psalms as well, but I feel that Job is more reliable because of its example and evidence to its point. Also, from my experience everything in Job and Ecclesiastes is true. There is a time for everything and pointless suffering exists. In real life, it doesn't take long to figure out that the righteous do suffer and for no reason. Life is unfair but at least Job and Ecclesiastes understand and show this, which is why I find them more convincing.
ReplyDeleteI feel like all of the Wisdom Literature is convincing in their own ways, but I personally believe that Job and Ecclesiastes is the most convincing. I think that Jobs and Ecclesiastes is the most convincing because it is relatable. It is relatable to people because even the purest people have to face trials and devastation. I also think this because Psalms and Proverbs are filled with prayers and rules but in Job and Ecclesiastes tells a story. And in the story you are able to see God in a different way. When talking to Job he is strong and powerful, but he is also understanding. I feel this makes Job and Ecclesiastes more convincing because you are able to see God as most people imagine him as a gracious amazing God instead of just reading rules and how to pray.
ReplyDeleteI find that the wisdom of Proverbs and Psalms is more convincing than the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes. It is easier for me to understand Proverbs and Psalms. Proverbs are like small laws and pieces of advise that can relate to your daily life, and Psalms are poems that usually explain God's love and teach you something. Some Psalms have been turned into songs that I remember from Lower School. I can relate to those more than Job and Ecclesiastes, because I grew up around them and were they taught to me at a very young age. Another thing is that there is so much controversy about the book of Job, and it really doesn't make sense to me. It makes me feel like it's basically countering everything that the Bible says, and I don't understand that. I am more convinced about what the Psalms and Proverbs have to say. I believe that because I am more comfortable with Proverbs and Psalms, and in order for me to get some more convincing about Job and Ecclesiastes, I will have to study it more. Ever since we have talked about it in class, I have been wanting to ask my paster about the book of Job. It has aroused a curiosity in me, and I would like to learn more about it. I hope that I can be better convinced about it, because the book of Job seems like a big part of Christianity. Psalms and Proverbs are more convincing to me, because they comfort me, and help me feel closer to God by knowing that what the Bible says is what he wants you to do and try to be like. The book of Job is hard for me to understand, because it just doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the Bible. It talks about unnecessary suffering, which no one seems to talk about. One day, maybe I will better understand the book of Job and Ecclesiastes.
ReplyDeleteI think that the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes is more convincing than the wisdom of Proverbs and Psalms. I feel like the widow of Job is more realistic and relatable. Everybody, nobody who they are, face troubles in their life, good or bad. In the movie we are watching in class, the mother is on the side of Proverbs while the father is more on the side of Job. In my opinion, the father's statements are a little extreme though. He thinks that there is no need to be good, which to me seems like people think they need to be rewarded for everything. More times than not, good deeds and actions go unnoticed, but that doesn't mean there is no point in performing them. We all know that being good may help others instead of ourselves, and I am okay with that. Job's story teaches character and acceptance, while although proverbs make sense, are not realistic. I think that the story of Job doesn't necessarily go against the proverbs, but shows you that some people are not more important to others, and all people are destined to suffer some in their lives.
ReplyDeleteThe knowledge of Psalms and Proverbs are conversely related to the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes. Psalms and Proverbs are built on the foundation that those who are righteous will receive blessings and grace, and those who are not righteous will receive unpleasantness and misery. This concept points to the fact that humans control their own destiny. Obtaining what you deserve would be true if we lived in a fair world. I believe that we live in an unfair world, filled with people that do not deserve to suffer but they do suffer, and people that do not deserve to prosper but they do prosper. The wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes states that bad things happen to good people and vise versa. I think that Job and Ecclesiastes are more accurate when talking about fairness. It is the only way to explain global suffering. There is no way that anyone can say a child ever deserves to starve to death in an impoverished town. There is meaningless suffering in this world. However, there is a certain aspect that I do agree with in Psalms and Proverbs. I like the idea of attempting to be righteous. My philosophy would take in parts of both different pieces of wisdom literature. I believe that being good does not guarantee blessings and grace, but it does put you in a better position than those who are not righteous.
ReplyDeleteI prefer the wisdom from Proverbs and Psalms. This isn't a knock against Ecclesiastes and Job, which are very resourceful and have a vast amount of information and teaching, I just prefer Psalms and Proverbs. I like the teachings in these books because I like to give credit to where credit is due. And we see a lot of that in Psalms through David's prayer and praise to God. However, in Proverbs, I like the way the book is structured. I like to be precise and to the point about things in life that pertain to learning and receiving knowledge. This doesn't mean I can't and don't like to have to thinks deeply in order to learn a concept, I just prefer being concise and direct. Also, to me Proverbs seems to talk (in a broad statement) about if you do so and so, then you will have either longevity, increased wealth, or you'll make it to Heaven. It's not that I'm longing for materialistic things, but it's a good feeling to know you get rewarded for doing something good. Now in the case of Job, he was punished for something he didn't do. This makes me wonder why the Bible contradicts its teachings by having these two opposing ideas so close together. This also is shown in the example we talked about in class being that these four books are on opposite sides of the "roof" of the Bible. I guess that will be something that I can never and won't ever be able to wrap my mind around. In the end, Both books are very helpful and are full of wisdom literature. It just depends on which books are better suited as advice to help your life (in whichever way that happens)
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I relate better to Job and Ecclesiates than to Proverbs and Psalms. I feel that Job and Ecclesiates is more realatable to the things that humans go through in life. So many people in the world always questions why bad things happen to us for no good reason. A lot of the media we see today there is always a scene like "Why is this happening to me?" "Of all people why me?" This exact example are questions people have in their mind when like takes a nasty turn. This is what "pointless suffering" is. Then I love in the story of Job how then God tells Job, "Where were you when I created the Earth?" It made me feel small in such a vast world, but also made me feel blessed that I can wake up to such a beautiful sight! Even though I chose Job and Ecclesiates, I still have enjoyed reading Proverbs and Psalms.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion I feel like Job is more convincing than Proverbs and Psalms because it teaches us lessons that Proverbs and Psalms don't. Although useful, Proverbs and Psalms don't stir up an essential question that Job does. Job answers the question that everyone asks themselves at some point in their life. For me, Job imitates life in a realistic way. It is easy to relate to because everybody has struggle at some point in their life. It is easy to blame God for those troubles, but Job teaches us a valuable lesson; there is no such thing as pointless suffering. Without this book, we wouldn't know that everything happens for a reason. This book was essential for us to learn from and cope with our suffering. Proverbs and Psalms are very useful if you want to learn the "gateway to heaven", but Job teaches us something that we can use for our everyday life. Overall, it is a more convincing book because it is more relatable in many different ways. Sometimes the book of Job can be misdirecting. For example, in the movie "The Tree of Life", the father thinks there is no point to being good at all. I think this is something that makes Job such an important book. Even though I disagree with the father, I believe that this shows us the impact that the story of Job has on everybody.
ReplyDeleteI think that the wisdom in Job and Ecclesiastes is more convincing. While Proverbs and Psalms offer many different wisdoms on different things, Job offers a full story and I really liked the excerpt from Ecclesiastes that we read as well. When we read the different proverbs and psalms we take away many separate things but when we read Job it is answering a huge human question. From Job we find an example of a good man, who has done no wrong, suffering. We learn a lot from Job because the story is nice and long (compared to the proverbs and psalms) and there are a lot of components to analyze. There is the story and action that takes place and there is also the conversations that take place between Job and his friends and between Job and God. And being that Job is a full story, it is much easier to remember what the theme is and what we learned from it. From Ecclesiastes, I really liked the “A Time for Everything” because it applies to any time (not that the proverbs/psalms don’t, but this does also) and because it has many truths in it that are relatable. Because Job and Ecclesiastes offer full/complete and relatable pieces of wisdom, I think they are more convincing.
ReplyDeleteI find the advice in Proverbs and Psalms more convincing than the wisdom in Job and Ecclesiastes. Ecclesiastes and the story of Job don't tell you what to do, they just tell you that bad things can happen even to the good and that there is a time for everything. The Psalms and Proverbs tell you how to live your life correctly according to the Torah. While the story of Job only teaches you one lesson, each of the proverbs teach you a lesson and there are several. Also, the poetic form of the Psalms make them easy to remember. It is especially easy to remeber the Proverbs since they are only a few lines long too.
ReplyDeleteThe wisdom in Job is the most convincing to me. It explains why some suffering is in this world and why we should admire God instead of fear him. It is easier to relate to Job than to Psalms and Proverbs. Job never did wrong, while he suffered. This should be enough evidence against Proverbs which says that the righteous will not suffer. The argument between Job and God is not as easy to remember word for word, but the concept of the argument is easy to do so.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the wisdoms of Job and Ecclesiastes are more convincing to me because it helps me to understand why we suffer and why God dose these bad things to those who have not always done bad. Even though Job never sinned, he was still punished to be tested in front of God. Job gives us lessons which the others do not. Job can be related to everyone in the world because lots of people believe they have done nothing wrong an are punished for no reason. God is doing these things to test us and see if we trust and believe in Him.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the wisdom of proverbs are more convincing than the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes. I like the advice that the proverbs give me. They kind of are unwritten rules of life in my opinion. Such as the proverb that said whether your poor or rich we all go to the same place. I think the proverbs can really snap some people back to reality. Those are some of the reasons why I prefer wisdom of proverbs over the wisdom of Job and Ecclesiastes.
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