In this chapter, Phoebe is still talking to Holden about getting kicked out of Pency. She keeps reminding him that "daddy'll kill you"(Page 166) for getting kick out of Pency. Holden goes on and tells Phoebe how much he hates Pency because of all the phonies in that school. After Holden goes on this long rant, Phoebe finally asks him a question, "You don't like
anything that is happening" (Page 169) Holden quickly disagrees with this statement and says that is a lie and of course he likes things. Phoebe follows with saying, "Okay name one thing". It takes Holden a while to figure out what is one thing that he likes. Holden says he likes Allie, but Holden also says he likes a poem called 'If a body meet a body coming through the rye' by
Robert Burns. The poem is about little kids playing a game in a big field of rye. Holden puts himself in this poem and says there are thousands of kids, and nobody big is around except for him. Holden continues on saying that he is standing on the edge of some crazy cliff and his job is to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff. Holden has to catch them because if they are running and they do not look where they are going, he can catch them before they hit the ground. That is the only thing that Holden wants to be, the catcher in the rye. What I wrote above is exactly the reason why Holden is the way he is. In
Catcher in the Rye, we realize that Holden has trouble communicating and he has a mental problem. Holden feels like he has to hold the whole world on his shoulder, and he does not know how to ask for help. This is why Holden likes the poem by Robert Burns, because he feels like he has to pick everyone up when they fall all by himself. He can relate to the poem. What do you take away from this statement from Holden, about what he wants to do when he grows up? Do you agree with my conclusion? Why or why not? Do you feel that the reason why Holden likes this poem is because of his personality? Why or Why not?
I think it just shows Holden's predicament that he is struggling with the entire book. He sees the world around him and picks out the phonies; the people who have gone over the cliff. He looks at them as if they don’t even know how phony they are, like they’re helpless. They are phonies who don’t even know they are, and Holden feels like he’s special for being able to recognize their phoniness and because he has, he wants nothing to do with them. We learn from Holden that phoniness is often something that comes with adulthood. All of these kids running through the rye blindly are exactly that: kids. In Holden’s perfect world, they would be all be able to stay that way; there would be no cliff. But there is, so Holden wants to prevent as many phonies and preserve as many children as he can. That’s all he wants to do, but it’s not practical. As for your conclusion, I agree for the most part, but I’m not sure if it’s Holden feeling responsible as much as Holden just yearning to catch the kids although it could be that he feels he should because nobody else is. Holden definitely likes the idea of catching these kids coming through the rye because of his personality. He feels like a kid who’s made it to the edge and not gone over and ought to try to catch everyone else since he can, even if they might not want to be caught.
ReplyDeleteWhat I take away from Holden saying this is that not only does he want to help others but he does not want other people to go through what he went through. I partly agree with your idea that Holden feels like he needs to hold the world on his shoulders. However, He also adds on the wieght of his own emotions. Holden feels like he must stop all of the little kids from losing thier innocence because of what happened to him. Holden lost his innocence when Allie died and it has effected him ever since. I think Holden likes the poem because of what it symbolizes to him. For Holden it brings back his childhood. Holden loved his childhood and wants to return there everyday of his life. All in all Holden is carrying the wieght of the world on his sholders trying to protect himself and the people he cares about from what happened to him.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that Holden puts the weight of the world on his shoulders. He does not stress about the normal teenage things like grades and friends. Instead Holden is struggling with depression, anxiety, and loss. He thinks Allie's whole death should add to the weight on his shoulders. He also feels bad unloading even the tiniest bit of his stress onto other people. He tells Phoebe what he wants to do in life and why he hates Pency but he never unloads any stress on her. I think he does this to protect other people from feeling the way he does. Holden would rather help other people by being the 'Catcher in The Rye'. But what he doesn't realize is that to help other people you have to help yourself first, which Holden is avoiding. I also think Holden wants to catch the kids because he doesn't want to deal with his problems and he wants them to stay innocent and young. He doesn't want their childhood to be taken from them (falling off the cliff) like his was when Allie died. I think the root of Holden's hatred of growing up, depression, and anxiety all came from the loss of Allie. If Holden would open up to somebody who could help him, he would be in a much better state.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with your conclusion, but I also think that there is another reason why Holden likes this poem so much. Not only does he carry the world on his shoulders, but he also believes that somehow he has escaped the adult world and hopes to help other kids do the same. This is why his only wish is to be the catcher in the rye. Holden's personality is just that; someone who thinks that the world is phony and is having an internal struggle trying to get away from that. His "duty" to the world would be to help other kids not fall of the cliff of childhood and this is perfectly depicted for him in the poem. Everything that Holden says has a special meaning to it. I think that Holden couldn't think of anything that he liked when he was talking to Phoebe because everything he has liked has ended up badly somehow. The only thing he can truly rely on is himself and his childhood, which is what the poem is about.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this statement is Holden really saying that he want's to find a way no to grow up and show other kids how to do the same. He is going to stop them from "falling" into adulthood. I agree with your idea of Holden feeling like he is holding the world on his shoulders. I disagree with your idea that Holden likes the poem because the character in it is holding the world on his shoulders. I think that he likes it because he sees the rye field as childhood and they are able to stay in it. I feel that Holden likes the poem because of his outlook on life which I guess is also a part of his personality.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your conclusion about what Holden wants to do when he grows up, but I think that there might be more then just one reason. You said because Holden feels like he has to carry the world on his shoulders, but I think it could also be that Holden might feel a little guilty about the death of Allie, and he might feel like he can make up for it by saving all of the children's lives in the rye field. I think that Holden likes this poem so much less because of his personality and more because of his memories and emotions. Holden likes the poem because he feels like in it, as long as the children are in the rye field, then their purity will never leave them. This is another reason why Holden would like to catch the kids on the cliff when he grows up, because by turning them back around into the rye field, he would also be saving their purity which i think is very important to Holden.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the conclusion that Holden doesn't like the idea of growing up. I also agree that Holden feels like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders. I think Holden likes this poem because he feels like he needs to save all the other children from "growing up" and keeping them away from the cliffs. The "world on his soldiers" is a symbol of the children he has to carry or catch before they fall into adult hood.
ReplyDelete