We see in chapter 19 that Holden meets up with his old Student Advisor, Luce, at the Wicker Bar in the Seton Hotel. Even though Luce can't stay at the bar for too long, Holden has a conversation with Luce asking him about what he's been doing since they both went to the Whooton School together. Luce is very limiting on the information he gives to Holden. He refuses to talk about his sex life and answer any questions that Holden has about sex. Holden reflects on the talks that Old Luce would give Holden and his peers in the dorm room and talks with them about sex. Knowing that Holden has a pet-peeve with purity, he felt that the talks were so awkward and weird. Holden also describes how Old Luce can name any "Joe Blow" that is a flit.We also see Holden come close to another chance t finally open up with somebody. Holden asks Luce to "Please have one more drink, I'm lonely as hell.."(pg.149). We see Holden admit that he has nobody to talk to, and can infer that he is all by himself in New York. What do you think caused Holden to finally at least admit to Luce that he was lonely? Why? Would you predict that Holden will ever open up to anybody later in the book?
When Holden finally opens up, I think part of the reason he opened up was because he was slightly intoxicated by the time Luce came to see him at the bar. Another reason why I think Holden opened up to him was because he considered him almost a big brother so long ago when he would tell the whole dorms personal and intimate stories. When he told these stories, perhaps a bond was created by those stories and a trust between him and Holden. Now that Holden was a little bit more grown up, he tried to relate to Luce by the only thing that they ever talked about, which was sex. But now, Luce was grown up and more mature and above only talking about sex and he wished to think deeper and more intellectual in the conversation that he carried with men around his age. I do not think Holden will open up to many other people besides maybe Phoebe in the book just because he has such a hard time in the first place. Also, only saying "i'm lonely as hell" isn't quite opening up but its a start. I think that discouraged Holden to tell people his problems because Luce rejected him and left. This will put down Holden and encourage him not to tell people his problems just in fear of getting rejected again and being even more lonely.
ReplyDeleteI think that two things cause Holden to tell Luce how he was felling. First his background with him was good and they met in an opened environment. This means that Holden was more comfortable around Luce than other people. This could be a reason why Holden opened up to Luce. The second reason his everyone else. All of the other people Holden has talked to have simply just pushed him away or just no listened to him. Holden could have though this time would be different. Also Holden's emotions were starting to build up faster than he was able to control. However Luce turned out like all the others and held Holden back from talking.Yes I predict that Holden is not completely discouraged and will always continue to ask people for advice. Eventually Holden has to open up to somebody and be able to release his emotions instead of keeping them on the inside.
ReplyDeleteHolden seemed to have almost found a way out in this chapter, and Luce revealing that his father was a skilled psychoanalysis seemed to intrigue Holden far more than he showed outwardly. I believe that he admitted that he was lonesome as a means of trying to get Luce to stay and talk more about his father, and perhaps even lead in to how his father could help Holden. However, Holden is cut short from this as Luce leaves anyway. But it is true that Holden was lonely, and him sitting in a bar full of phony adults doing phony things really must have drove him quite to the edge. I feel like Holden is really getting desperate now, and he will try to take more chances to talk with others in the future. However, considering his social skills and the attitude of the people he knows currently, success might be a little far-fetched.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Holden came close to opening up to Luce in this chapter, but not when he says "I'm lonesome as hell". The part where he came closest to opening up was before that when he said, "Listen, hey, Luce. You're one of these intellectual guys. I need your advice. I'm in a terrific-" and then Luce interrupts him with a groan. It isn't suprising that Holden admits to Luce that he is lonely, because he already knows that at the beginning of the book. But in the quote I just mentioned, he outright tells Luce that he needs help, and doesn't just allude to it. When he almost tells Luce about his problem, it is supposed to be very suprising, as asking other people for help is very un-Holdenlike.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden finally admitted he was lonely because, in the past, when he tried to open up to others, he didn't really find the comfort he was looking for. For example, he tried to talk with the prostitute, and that didn't help him at all. Holden probably felt that if he admitted to himself that he was lonely, he could fix his problems much faster. I think that there is a pretty big chance that Holden will talk to someone else. Even though we can infer that Holden ends up in and asylum in the first few paragraphs of the book, Holden would have a complete break-down if he didn't get his feelings out.
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