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In chapter 25 of the Catcher
in the Rye Holden meets with Phoebe at the museum to tell her goodbye because he’s going to travel west
on the trains and leave New York behind. When Phoebe shows up with a packed
bag, she says that she’s coming with him. Holden talks her out of it, but not
without her bursting into tears. To control her and win her favor back, Holden
takes her to the zoo. While at the zoo, Holden sees a carrousel and asks Phoebe
if she wants to go on a ride. Holden mentions that the carrousel is playing the song that all carrousels play, Oh Marie. She says yes and then when she gets on she asks
Holden if he wants to ride too. He says no however, he says he’ll just watch.
Saying no was a big step in the evolution of Holden. It seems as though he is
realizing slowly that he is not a child anymore and that he can still enjoy
childhood by watching others go through it and using them to remember his own
childhood. Do you think that Holden not going on the carrousel is symbolic of
his coming of age and coming to the reality that he has to grow up? Why or why not?
I think that Holden not going on the carrousel is symbolic of Holden starting the journey into adulthood because it showed that he knew he was too old for the marry-go-round. He knew that he would look foolish on it, which made him, in my mind, realize that he was growing up to be an adult and he can't look like a child still. Today, every adult remembers their childhood through their children, which I think Holden can through Phoebe. I think Holden has noticed that it is time to grow up, and to start acting like an adult and not a child. Although, it may be perceived that Holden just wanted Phoebe to go on it so he could forgive him, and he just wasn't feeling it, we can see a new, reinvented Holden. The reader can see that Holden is now learning that he can't remain a child forever, and that it is in fact time for him to grow up.
ReplyDeleteYes, I do think that Holden not going on the carrousel is a big step for him. I think Holden is finally realizing that he cannot be a kids forever. I think Holden was so glad to watch her on the carrousel because he was happy to be able to watch her enjoying being a kid. I think that is why he would not yak he with him and why he got so mad at her. I think Phoebe reminded him of himself when she was wearing his red hunting hat and saying she did not want to go back to school. I also think that the carrousel is very symbolic because of the way it turns. To me when I was reading the book I thought the turning of the carousel kind of symbolized they circle of life. I also think it is very symbolic how he says the carrousel was playing "Oh Marie", which it had played his entire childhood, but once Phoebe gets on it starts playing "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" which is a less upbeat song. I definitely think this shows his entrance of adulthood.
ReplyDeleteI definitely think that is one way that that could be interpreted. Holden making the decision to tell Phoebe that he'd rather just watch her is something that he admits was hard to do. He realizes himself that he would be too big for the carousel. He realizes he's too old for childhood. He would be the biggest one there. Just like when he wanted to be the catcher in the rye. He pictured himself being the big one among all these kids and wanting to catch them, but now he himself has decided to go over the edge and accept that he's growing away from childhood. Holden mentions that the kids on the carousel were all reaching for the gold ring, and Phoebe too. And he says "The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you had to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them." I think this also shows that Holden no longer wants to be the catcher in the rye. This and the carousel show Holden's realization that it's best just to live your childhood and eventually grow up, and that he has started to accept his coming of age.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden telling his sister that he did not want to go on the carrousel with her did partially imply that Holden is starting to mature. On the other hand, I think that Holden refused to go on the carrousel also because he was debating whether or not to run away while Phoebe was still on. However, I do think that Holden realized that someone of his age going on a carrousel would be slightly embarrassing, and out of place. I think Holden is mainly able to make this differentiation because he is comparing himself with his sister who is much younger, and more child-like than he is. I think that this caused the realization that he could not stay like his kid sister forever, rather he would have to grow up. He starting to consciously realize that there are new rules and boundaries that people his age must abide by, and that they are not the same as a child. Holden is not maturing because he wants to, but rather because he is forced to and realizes that, he has no choice in the matter.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely, the fact that Holden does not go on the carousel with Phoebe really leads me to the conclusion that Holden has at long last given up on the idea of staying in his childhood. And the fact that he cries while Phoebe is on the carousel implies that he realizes that he has lost this fight and must mature in order to live on. The action of Phoebe giving back the red hunting hat back to him also holds some meaning for me, as the hunting hat symbolizes something of an identity for Holden. During his time in New York he has been through a lot, and his narration seems a lot like walking through the wasteland. His identity has become blurred, and now that it has been given back to him he can truly break his fall and move on, even if it means breaking a few bones to do so.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden's saying no to the ride does symbolize some sort of growing up. Through this simple two-lettered answer, Holden shows us that he is completely aware that his childhood is far behind him. However, I think that Holden realizes that watching someone else experience childhood may be beneficial. He is slowly learning that, weather he realizes it or not, he is slowly becoming an adult. I think that this particular chapter changes our views completely towards adulthood.
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